Comments on: Introduction – Dr. Bastian’s Heaven

By: Paul Patton

Paul Patton — Thu, 24 May 2007 19:19:05 +0000

Jeff,

Just finished the introduction. Strong, very strong. I was especially drawn in by the beautifully delicate story about Paul Sills–a story that should evolve mythically, a sort-of backdrop to our theatrical/performance fears as thespians, evangelists, immobilized by the impact of “someone else’s” glory.

I’m hoping the chair of our worship arts department can benefit from it.

A lovely project, dear colleague.

By: Colin Doughan

Colin Doughan — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:45:20 +0000

Jeff:

I am coming late to this party so you probably already caught this, but there is a spelling oops in Natalie Goldberg’s first quote. I believe the word should be “Learning” not “Leaning”. Trst mee on ths, I am a good spllr.

By: Colin Doughan

Colin Doughan — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:42:25 +0000

Jeff:

I am impatient to read more. I almost didn’t comment so I could move on to your next chapter :) I am anxious to see how you bring together imagination and creed into corporate worship. My church loves to sing ancient words – hymns written hundreds of years ago, and songs not yet off the Christian top 40 charts. However not all of the top 40 christian songs make it onto the overhead projector each Sunday at my church. Maybe more should…If I chose the songs each Sunday, some of the latest Christian offerings would not make the cut for worship – some authentic Christian music does not urge me to worship. Perhaps others feel the same. Why am I talking about song while commenting about story? If I were picking the music at my local church, I would not feel bad or awkward about leaving some songs off the song list, I do not know these artists, these artists do not all attend my church. Story is different. It sounds like your goal is for story to be local, communal, and personal. I look forward to discussions about the “how.” How do I evaluate the worshipful quality of authentic experience? Is this even a fair question? All truth is God’s truth. I look forward to being challenged and humbled at my own arrogance towards worship in chapters to come. To God be the Glory in everything.

By: Becky Sheridan

Becky Sheridan — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:35:20 +0000

Hey Jeff! I don’t have a lot to do in my job as an apartment manager, so I was very happy to see that I can come read your words on story in this blog. It’s been almost 5 years since I graduated from Northwestern, and I still don’t know what I want to do with my life (right now I’m just working and doing the occasional theatre production), but I do know I want my life to involve the telling of stories. You instilled the importance of story in me at NWC, and I can’t wait to read what else you have to say about the subject!

By: Jeff Barker

Jeff Barker — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:49:14 +0000

Noel – Yep. I can’t imagine my wife Karen saying to me, “Whatever you do, don’t get creative with presents. You might just embarass yourself if I don’t care for a blouse you buy me.” While we need a Biblically guided use of worship gestures, at the same time, “It’s the thought that counts.” That’s what I take Jesus to mean when he says the father seeks those who will worship in spirit and in truth.

By: Jeff Barker

Jeff Barker — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:44:24 +0000

Let me try to get back on board with some responses to these responses.
PHIL – worship is indeed spiritual activity, but reading your phrase, “worship is all about the heart” brings to mind the balancing reminder found in the section of C.S. Lewis’s “The Screwtape Letters” in which one demon urges another to tempt the Christian into thinking it doesn’t really matter if you never kneel when you pray because prayer is just spiritual. Turns out it does matter what we do in these bodies.
EMILY F – your beautiful reverie on the gift of story is a splendid response to Sally’s question just above your post. No the Bible cannot be reduced to the story of good vs. evil, but rather the Bible reveals “the uncertain, beautiful, and weird moments of life in dialogue….” Yes!!!! This is the complex structure of the Bible and of God at work in our lives.
REBEKAH – I celebrate with you the Mark and Jody’s of the world. It takes people of vision and discipline to craft story into worship. May you follow in their footsteps!
KAILEN – How can we draw others out of the secret places? With your tender heart, this may very well become one of your life callings.
KATIE – “It is a good thing that the Old Testament is full of stories.” Whew. Yes. And isn’t it curious that the church can forget that basic fact.
EMILY E – You ask how Bible stories can help take worship to an intimate level. This is a wonderful question. I hope that this book and our semester together can begin to answer the question. But it will be a life’s journey. May we arrive at the end of our lives knowing that we were people of “The Story” of God.

By: Noel Wotherspoon

Noel Wotherspoon — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:56:53 +0000

So you are saying that we should let everything hang out? Something like that? I like the idea. I liked how you described that there shouldn’t be limitations on worship. Well, with the exception of human sacrifice and such. I think people do put certain labels on worship. Things get left out that shouldn’t be.

By: Phil Kosakowski

Phil Kosakowski — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 01:47:12 +0000

Great stuff Jeff!! I really liked all the things that you said about worship. I’ve heard over and over again, and i do believe, that worship is an all day, every day kind of thing, if you will. Reading this really helped me put it all in perspective. The fact that worship isn’t soley based on the music, or other aspects of the “worship service”. But rather, our whole lives and everything we do in them can be viewed as worship. Now like you said, that doesn’t mean that much or such other things can be used in our worship to God. But i just appreciated how you put into perspective that worship is all about the heart. Thanks!!

By: Emily Fischer

Emily Fischer — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 23:21:55 +0000

As a child, I experienced a divine moment of certainty regarding Jesus’ authentic message of life abundant. As an adolescent, I experienced a divine moment of certaintly regarding God’s call on my life to live in relationship with God and others. Two years later, I said “Yes” to God’s call for a life devoted to Christian ministry. Do I know exactly what that means? Of course not. I do know that my life is significantly different, now five years later, as I continue to seek God’s face and call on my life. My college experience has been extremely formative: I have doubted God’s existence, experienced disdain for my former worship tradition, gratefulness toward my former worship tradition, embarrassment at my prior concepts of God, and thankfulness for every dimension of God’s grace. My story is complex, as ours all are, yet I find that I cannot adequately embrace my life of Christian faith without revealing the uncertain, beautiful, and weird moments of life in dialogue with others. Story has remained a life-saving form of communion with God and others as I pursue Jesus Christ and God’s message of salvation- from sin, from myself, and from alienation. I hope this story makes some impression of my delight in the divine work of story. Emily

By: Sally Blezien

Sally Blezien — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:36:32 +0000

Today in one of my classes we discussed the “Biblical Story”. We listed the characters, plot, setting, etc. It came out that the underlying plot of the Biblical story is good vs. evil. God vs. Satan. In terms of storytelling I wondered if while basically that is an overall present theme in the Bible, if there is more to it than that. I wondered what Jeff Barker would say I guess. Is that the story found in the Bible? Is that the story we find in our lives? If that is part of it, is there anything else?
On another note, I am particularly interested in the idea of the story found within the structure of a worship service. I find the most powerful worship experiences I have had happen when pieces of the service are connected to each other and work together rather than being separate unrelated moments with God.

By: Rebekah Achenbach

Rebekah Achenbach — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 18:11:22 +0000

When I first started going to my current church, we had a time called “Treasure Chest Time” that was just for all the little kids of the church. Our worship leaders, Mark and Jody Stevenson, would sit the kids down, on the stage, and talk to them about the sermon that our pastor was about to talk about, putting it in terms they could understand. When you mentioned worshiping out the bones, this is the image that came to mind. Worshiping in the purest and simplist form possible so that we can truly experience God. Also, after remembering that Mark and Jody ran this time, I noticed the connection between worship (and by this, I mean singing) and storytelling. Mark and Jody were telling a story to the kids, while keeping the sense of worship 0r closeness to God in it. We have since lost this practice in my church because of lack of volunteers or people willing to do something like this, but the image is so vivid in my mind. Whenever I think of worship and storytelling, this will forever be the image I see. Even though this was a children’s time, it still held significance for the adults of the church because they (if they allowed themselves to be open to the idea) were able to again put the story and their faith into perpsective. The story became more than a simple Sunday School story, but it became a way to see their faith in a new way or an old way simply forgotten. Amazing.

By: Kailen Fleck

Kailen Fleck — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:02:14 +0000

Your stories of discovering all truth to be God’s truth is quite similar to my own story, Jeff. Christian liberal arts is a funny thing, but I’m thankful for the journey I’ve been on in discovering the truths God reveals to me. I like the AA idea. It’s a really scary thing because of how private Christians have made their worship and their lives, and while I believe worship and divulging of sins should be flippant, I do believe our secrecy can lead to often harrowing results. Worship is private, but it’s equally community based and manages to be found in denominations other than the ones we grew up. Who would have thought?! I haven’t been to the stations of the cross in a long time, but I was there with you when I read that part. Worship out the bones, worship out the inside! Very exciting!

By: Katie Gard

Katie Gard — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 01:30:13 +0000

Jeff,
I skimmed through the previous responses, and noticed that I am already on here once. Does that count? :) For the sake of time, I would be tempted to end there… except that I am inspired with more comments. I thought about how my home church would respond to the prospect of its members taking turns standing up in front of the congregation and being vulnerable with their own life stories. It would be beautiful, but it would take a lot of courage. It is a good thing that the Old Testament is full of stories. I wonder if members of my home congregation could ease into telling their stories by first telling the stories of the Bible. I like what I have been learning so far in class, and I am reaffirmed in my intention to offer the idea of drama in worship as an essential aspect that goes right along with my music ministry.

By: Emily Entsminger

Emily Entsminger — Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:12:51 +0000

Jeff, I think you hit the nail on the head when you were describing th stories of the Bible and how they are viewed by church members. The stories are for children in Sunday School, and the texts are viewed merely as any other children’s story; they are not viewed as containing truth and wisdom. I had not thought of, say David and Goliath as holding truth because I see it as a “feel good” story, but after reading this I understand that it-as well as others- contain real truth. So what should we do about story… is it enough to just tell our own stories and listen other people’s stories?? Also, I understand how our stories bring the “inside out” from the bones, but how can we use biblical stories to do the same thing? How can they help take worship to that intamate level?

By: Jeff Barker

Jeff Barker — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:51:02 +0000

Sanne,

Thanks for your wonderful note. Please send me your email address so I can put you on the list to receive regular updates.

And I would love it if you’d place another post telling us about your own work that has “revolved around theatreasworshipasstory.” Or just have a conversation with me about via email, and I’ll perhaps be able to work that into another aspect of the book.

Jeff

P.S. for everyone – the Jo Kadlecek that Sanne mentioned is a fine storyteller whose work you will want to check out. Her blog (along with her writer, film-maker husband) is at http://lamppostmedia.net/

By: Sanne (it rhymes with Donna)

Sanne (it rhymes with Donna) — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:49:15 +0000

Hi Jeff,

What fun! Jo Kadlecek said I HAD TO look at your site, so I did. My life work revolved around theatreasworshipasstory. Have you noted that Mark 4:34 informs us that Jesus spoke to the people in parables–”without a parable did he not say anything he said to them” is my favorite rendering of the rest of the sentence. Blows me away.

If you don’t mind, put me on your list. I’d like to keep reading.

Oh, by the way for what it’s worth: I liked it that you didn’t explain Karen. It made it more intimate for me. I guess I figured if she was a golden retriever or your grandmother’s neighbor, you would have explained. I assumed she was your wife, and it felt nice and cozy to have just met you and somehow have you expect me to step up to the plate in some friendly way.

Sanne McCarthy

By: Jeff Barker

Jeff Barker — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:11:58 +0000

Kelly, and everyone,

This is the sort of attention to detail that is so helpful – thank you!

Karen is my beloved wife and best friend. I’m guessing I was hoping everyone would figure that out, but maybe I’ll have to state it in the text somewhere.

Jeff

By: Kelly

Kelly — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:42:42 +0000

Jeff,
As I was reading chapter 8 I realized you talked about Karen as if all your readers know who she is. I know her of course but I wondered if others would know who you are talking about. I went back to the intro to see if you told us who Karen is. I don’t think you do. Do you think that should be here somewhere?
Kelly

By: Jeff Barker

Jeff Barker — Mon, 06 Nov 2006 14:16:23 +0000

Katie,

Thanks for stopping by and for leaving such a gracious comment. I’m expecting our class to grow as more students register throughout this next week. We should have a great time together. I’ll email you offline about your classmates.

Jeff

By: katie g

katie g — Mon, 06 Nov 2006 05:04:11 +0000

hi.
i’m signed up for your ‘drama and worship’ class for next semester, so i thought i’d take a peek at what i’m getting myself into.
if the class is anything like the intro to your book, i’m thrilled.
i like the idea of using open and honest stories to enhance worship.
one other person is currently signed up for your class. i’d be curious to find out who that is!
thanks.
~katie. (kgard@nwciowa.edu)

By: Jeff Barker

Jeff Barker — Thu, 02 Nov 2006 20:00:45 +0000

Amen, Amanda! Worship is what we were made for 24/7. The distinction between corporate worship and private worship can help us reflect (for example, much of this book is focused toward corporate worship). But even that is an artifice, for we are ever and always joined in the corporation of angels and saints who cry “Holy, holy, holy” and with the trees of the field that clap their hands.

By: Amanda

Amanda — Thu, 02 Nov 2006 02:45:35 +0000

hi, i am not methedist or reformed but pentecostal(i think i spelled that right) but i do love worship and am interested in what you have to say about “worshipping out the bones” and your views on worship. For it is not just something you do for 10min in chapel or even an hour or two(like at my church) but worship should be a continual action that takes place from the moment we wake to the moment we go to sleep. It’s not just about singing but worship is a life style pleasing unto our heavenly father.Worship should be a part of our very being, whether that is in song, dance, prayer, writing, or art.

By: Debra Freeberg

Debra Freeberg — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:36:46 +0000

Continued.

Public speaking tips doesn’t mean altering content, just shaping the content to be more accessible to the hearer.

Thanks for all your wise words, Jeff. It’s encouraging me to get moving on my own work! Thanks!

By: Debra Freeberg

Debra Freeberg — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:35:14 +0000

Dear Jeff:
Getting down to the bones is risky for some. We may want people to know us down to the bones, but it means being vunerable, open, available to be hurt by the hearer. I think there is a distinction between story (universal) as told by Sills and others and story (testimony).
Sometimes, members of the church don’t know how to appropriately share testimony (how much to reveal, how testimony becomes universal or applicable to others, and when and where appropriate). This takes discernment and training. Again, one could argue that providing the right place in the worships structure is the key.
And it wouldn’t hurt for churches to help those who give testimony to give them a basic structure and time limit–practical public speaking tips.

By: Jimmy Long

Jimmy Long — Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:36:58 +0000

Jeff,

I thank you for putting in the effort and heart to produce this book. It appears from the Introduction that this book will be well worth reading. I look forward to sharing it with my daugther, as well.

As a preacer I have learned the importance of story. The Bible is full of stories. Our lives are full of stories. Stories stir the imagination – and that message of Christ needs to engage the imagination.

Keep writing, and I’ll keep reading.

Jimmy Long