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	<title>Comments for Story and Worship</title>
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	<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>an exploration of story-formed worship</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 19:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Quiet Demons &#38; Screaming Peter Pan by mp340gb</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com#comment-1252</link>
		<dc:creator>mp340gb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 04:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/my-latest-project/#comment-1252</guid>
		<description>http://all_tiesto_here.ifastnet.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://all_tiesto_here.ifastnet.com" rel="nofollow">http://all_tiesto_here.ifastnet.com</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Quiet Demons &#38; Screaming Peter Pan by Belladonna</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com#comment-975</link>
		<dc:creator>Belladonna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/my-latest-project/#comment-975</guid>
		<description>I'm intrigued.  I am preparing a faculty development seminar for a rural community college in Oregon on how to use blogs / wiki / podcasting / etc. to enhance instruction.  I have been cruising through the blogosphere to find how other colleges are using the technology.  This is a bit of a different take on purpose for a  blog than what I was looking for, but I like what I see.

I'll be back!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m intrigued.  I am preparing a faculty development seminar for a rural community college in Oregon on how to use blogs / wiki / podcasting / etc. to enhance instruction.  I have been cruising through the blogosphere to find how other colleges are using the technology.  This is a bit of a different take on purpose for a  blog than what I was looking for, but I like what I see.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be back!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Judy&#8217;s Terrible Wonderful Afternoon by Jeff Barker</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/26/judys-terrible-wonderful-afternoon/#comment-948</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/26/judys-terrible-wonderful-afternoon/#comment-948</guid>
		<description>Doesn't require so much bravery when you're writing someone else's story. The brave ones are those who tell the church their own stories.

J</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t require so much bravery when you&#8217;re writing someone else&#8217;s story. The brave ones are those who tell the church their own stories.</p>
<p>J</p>
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		<title>Comment on Judy&#8217;s Terrible Wonderful Afternoon by Betsie Swartz</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/26/judys-terrible-wonderful-afternoon/#comment-946</link>
		<dc:creator>Betsie Swartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 01:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/26/judys-terrible-wonderful-afternoon/#comment-946</guid>
		<description>Rob Bell's new book "Sex God" is a wonderful discussion of the link between our sexuality and spirituality.  I'm only half way through and would highly recommend it.
Thank you, Jeff, for being brave enough to write about this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob Bell&#8217;s new book &#8220;Sex God&#8221; is a wonderful discussion of the link between our sexuality and spirituality.  I&#8217;m only half way through and would highly recommend it.<br />
Thank you, Jeff, for being brave enough to write about this.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Judy&#8217;s Terrible Wonderful Afternoon by Jeff Barker</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/26/judys-terrible-wonderful-afternoon/#comment-945</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 03:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/26/judys-terrible-wonderful-afternoon/#comment-945</guid>
		<description>Jon,

Here are a couple of other comments I've heard this week that affirm "failure":

1. A speech student, in commenting about how much she respected her mom, said, "I learned so much from how she handled failure in her life." I sat there realizing that I'd been wanting my kids to see me creating a perfect enviornment for them, when actually one of the things they need is for me to face trouble and watch my response. 

2. Another speech student today quoted from Benjamin Franklin: "There is no pain without gain." Do you see the subtle difference between this and "no pain, no gain." Franklin's statement affirms James when he says, "Consider it pure joy whenever you face trials of many kinds."

Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon,</p>
<p>Here are a couple of other comments I&#8217;ve heard this week that affirm &#8220;failure&#8221;:</p>
<p>1. A speech student, in commenting about how much she respected her mom, said, &#8220;I learned so much from how she handled failure in her life.&#8221; I sat there realizing that I&#8217;d been wanting my kids to see me creating a perfect enviornment for them, when actually one of the things they need is for me to face trouble and watch my response. </p>
<p>2. Another speech student today quoted from Benjamin Franklin: &#8220;There is no pain without gain.&#8221; Do you see the subtle difference between this and &#8220;no pain, no gain.&#8221; Franklin&#8217;s statement affirms James when he says, &#8220;Consider it pure joy whenever you face trials of many kinds.&#8221;</p>
<p>Jeff</p>
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		<title>Comment on Judy&#8217;s Terrible Wonderful Afternoon by Jon Opgenorth</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/26/judys-terrible-wonderful-afternoon/#comment-943</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Opgenorth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/26/judys-terrible-wonderful-afternoon/#comment-943</guid>
		<description>Brother Jeff,

What a profound story.  I will most likely be referring to it in my sermon on Sunday.  How helpful to the hurting families in our church and community.  

George Whitfield said one of the tools of Satan was to beat us up with our failures.  Listen:

"[And] when [Satan] finds he cannot allure you by flattery, he will try you by frowns, and the terrors of this world….  Do you expect to be saved by Christ? Also, He did not die for you; you have been too great a sinner; you have lived in sin so long, and committed such sins against Christ, which he will not forgive. Thus he hurries poor sinners almost into despair."

Thanks for sharing this moment.

Jon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brother Jeff,</p>
<p>What a profound story.  I will most likely be referring to it in my sermon on Sunday.  How helpful to the hurting families in our church and community.  </p>
<p>George Whitfield said one of the tools of Satan was to beat us up with our failures.  Listen:</p>
<p>&#8220;[And] when [Satan] finds he cannot allure you by flattery, he will try you by frowns, and the terrors of this world….  Do you expect to be saved by Christ? Also, He did not die for you; you have been too great a sinner; you have lived in sin so long, and committed such sins against Christ, which he will not forgive. Thus he hurries poor sinners almost into despair.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing this moment.</p>
<p>Jon</p>
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		<title>Comment on Soundtrack by Jeff Barker</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-924</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-924</guid>
		<description>P.S. I was surprised and delighted a couple of weeks ago (my most recent Sunday at my church) to arrive and see Bev once again at the bench!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. I was surprised and delighted a couple of weeks ago (my most recent Sunday at my church) to arrive and see Bev once again at the bench!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Soundtrack by Jeff Barker</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-923</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-923</guid>
		<description>Graciously, firmly, clearly and succinctly put. Thanks, Amy. I tried to write the chapter in a way that would make room for all to come back into this conversation, but sometimes there comes a place to put one's foot down. 

Last night, I returned from the Navaho reservation where I heard the clearest articulation for diversity in worship that I've heard. Beautiful. I've got to find the space and time to write about that experience soon.

Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graciously, firmly, clearly and succinctly put. Thanks, Amy. I tried to write the chapter in a way that would make room for all to come back into this conversation, but sometimes there comes a place to put one&#8217;s foot down. </p>
<p>Last night, I returned from the Navaho reservation where I heard the clearest articulation for diversity in worship that I&#8217;ve heard. Beautiful. I&#8217;ve got to find the space and time to write about that experience soon.</p>
<p>Jeff</p>
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		<title>Comment on Soundtrack by Amy Scheer</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-912</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Scheer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-912</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

I'm with Dave Daumer, and here are two reasons  why: one, Bev is a wonderful person and musician, and two, the organ can do just fine alongside contemporary worship music. The church can't glibly wait for heaven's perfect harmony while Bev is sliding off the bench wondering about her "place." Tell her that her place is right there on that bench, right now. People first, as Daumer said.

Amy Scheer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m with Dave Daumer, and here are two reasons  why: one, Bev is a wonderful person and musician, and two, the organ can do just fine alongside contemporary worship music. The church can&#8217;t glibly wait for heaven&#8217;s perfect harmony while Bev is sliding off the bench wondering about her &#8220;place.&#8221; Tell her that her place is right there on that bench, right now. People first, as Daumer said.</p>
<p>Amy Scheer</p>
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		<title>Comment on Soundtrack by Jeff Barker</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-908</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 22:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-908</guid>
		<description>Thanks for these wonderful posts on this topic! Here's a follow-up question regarding the original chapter. Does anyone read my chapter as advocating getting rid of organs from worship? At least one person has said to me off-blog that this is what they read in the chapter. What do you think? My reason for asking is that I DON"T want to advocate against any particular instrument, but my goal is to raise some of the dynamics that exist when changes occur (which they must from time to time).

Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for these wonderful posts on this topic! Here&#8217;s a follow-up question regarding the original chapter. Does anyone read my chapter as advocating getting rid of organs from worship? At least one person has said to me off-blog that this is what they read in the chapter. What do you think? My reason for asking is that I DON&#8221;T want to advocate against any particular instrument, but my goal is to raise some of the dynamics that exist when changes occur (which they must from time to time).</p>
<p>Jeff</p>
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		<title>Comment on Soundtrack by dwriter</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-907</link>
		<dc:creator>dwriter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-907</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

So well-written and so very much right where many congregations are these days.  Right there in the midst of the "us" and "them" of our musicians, of our traditional vs. contemporary service attendees, of those who serve and those who don't, of those who give and those who don't.  

"On the other side of all these changes, when our grieving is finally done, we will still have each other, and we will still have the Lord. And he will have us. And I believe that there will come a day that my high school friend Tony will plug in his guitar, and my Iowa friend Bev will slide onto the organ bench, and we will sing a new song. And it will sound like heaven."

I've always loved John 17.  Here, Jesus prays just before Judas betrays Him.  Below are portions from vv. 6-23:

"I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world...I ask concerning them...Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth...And I do not ask concerning these only, but concerning those also who believe into Me through their word...That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us...And the glory which You have given Me I have given to them...that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me."

This prayer is revealing and profound, even with my editing due to space.  The oneness of the believers was uppermost on His heart just before His arrest.  Actually, He says "that they all may be one" THREE TIMES, thereby accenting its importance.

Over the years the splintered church has tried to "get together" with ecumenism, and by advocating unity.  The problem is, "unity" and "oneness" are not synonymous, IMHO.  An illustration is best.

Unity is like joining different components which have some similarities.  The methods of joining are many -- some more effective than others, depending, in large part, on the skill, motive and agenda of the builders.  The Achilles' heel of unity in the church is twofold, as I see it.

First, who is doing the unifying?  Man or God?  The answer to that only comes when the unification brings forth some kind of fruit.

Second, one of the inherent realities of constructing a building is that when dissimilar components are joined, the resulting joints are especially vulnerable, because that is where the stress is at its greatest.   It doesn't matter if it is entire denominations, local congregations, individual Christians, or styles of music and worship.  The greatest vulnerability is at the joints.  (Ever damaged your knee, and you'll understand this all too painfully.) 

Yes, Paul talks about the building up of the Body of Christ, but I can't believe  something as fallible as the human effort of unity is what he means, since oneness only comes from God.  

As forgiven sinners, most of us still have not learned to let go of very much "for the sake of the oneness in the unity bond of peace." Not our opinions, our cultures (this includes worship style and music preferences), or our personal agendas.  In ourselves we are incapable of oneness of thought, word or action with other human beings.  

Only in, through, and by the Spirit's little-by-little-day-by-day transformation for a lifetime and the outpouring of the Spirit in power are we capable of achieving oneness locally, let alone globally.  

Look at the disciples.  Before the crucifixion and resurrection, they were arguing over who would have pre-eminence in the Kingdom.  But then they received the Holy Pneuma, became enlightened, enlivened (not to mention regenerated), enjoyed further instruction and comfort from the Lord for forty days, and watched His ascension.  Following THIS, the disciples "continued steadfastly with one accord in prayer" with the sisters and Jesus' relatives.  It was then the Spirit came upon them, and mighty works of God ensued.  Then afterwards they continued in one accord. THAT is what we all want a taste of.  A foretaste of eternity.

Here then, is the illustration of that oneness, that one accord.  It is like combining tea and water.  Once intermingled, they cannot be separated.  The essence of the tea is infused into the water and they are no longer distinct from one another. It is impossible to detect where the tea stops and the water starts or vice versa.  No joints, no stress points.

We have no human construct for the Lord's You-in-Me-and-I-in-You-and-they-in-Us.  Without Paul's illustration of The Body with Christ as her head, we couldn't understand the church.  Without John's illustration of the Bride, wouldn't "get" New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven, adorned as a bride for her husband.  And without the illustration of the "teaification" of water, we wouldn't understand just how closely the Father, Son and Spirit desire to mingle with us.  One Body, One Spirit, One God and Father who is over all and through all and in all of us.  

If we are "diligent to keep the oneness of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace," who is Christ Himself, realized by us through the Spirit, from the Father, then even when it seems impossible for the church to agree on anything, we still have this promise:

"[He] is able to do superabundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power which operates in us,."  And so on that day, we can say with gladness, "To Him be the glory _in the church_ and in Christ Jesus unto all the generations forever and ever. Amen."

Thanks, Jeff!  -- Deb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>So well-written and so very much right where many congregations are these days.  Right there in the midst of the &#8220;us&#8221; and &#8220;them&#8221; of our musicians, of our traditional vs. contemporary service attendees, of those who serve and those who don&#8217;t, of those who give and those who don&#8217;t.  </p>
<p>&#8220;On the other side of all these changes, when our grieving is finally done, we will still have each other, and we will still have the Lord. And he will have us. And I believe that there will come a day that my high school friend Tony will plug in his guitar, and my Iowa friend Bev will slide onto the organ bench, and we will sing a new song. And it will sound like heaven.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always loved John 17.  Here, Jesus prays just before Judas betrays Him.  Below are portions from vv. 6-23:</p>
<p>&#8220;I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world&#8230;I ask concerning them&#8230;Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth&#8230;And I do not ask concerning these only, but concerning those also who believe into Me through their word&#8230;That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us&#8230;And the glory which You have given Me I have given to them&#8230;that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me.&#8221;</p>
<p>This prayer is revealing and profound, even with my editing due to space.  The oneness of the believers was uppermost on His heart just before His arrest.  Actually, He says &#8220;that they all may be one&#8221; THREE TIMES, thereby accenting its importance.</p>
<p>Over the years the splintered church has tried to &#8220;get together&#8221; with ecumenism, and by advocating unity.  The problem is, &#8220;unity&#8221; and &#8220;oneness&#8221; are not synonymous, IMHO.  An illustration is best.</p>
<p>Unity is like joining different components which have some similarities.  The methods of joining are many &#8212; some more effective than others, depending, in large part, on the skill, motive and agenda of the builders.  The Achilles&#8217; heel of unity in the church is twofold, as I see it.</p>
<p>First, who is doing the unifying?  Man or God?  The answer to that only comes when the unification brings forth some kind of fruit.</p>
<p>Second, one of the inherent realities of constructing a building is that when dissimilar components are joined, the resulting joints are especially vulnerable, because that is where the stress is at its greatest.   It doesn&#8217;t matter if it is entire denominations, local congregations, individual Christians, or styles of music and worship.  The greatest vulnerability is at the joints.  (Ever damaged your knee, and you&#8217;ll understand this all too painfully.) </p>
<p>Yes, Paul talks about the building up of the Body of Christ, but I can&#8217;t believe  something as fallible as the human effort of unity is what he means, since oneness only comes from God.  </p>
<p>As forgiven sinners, most of us still have not learned to let go of very much &#8220;for the sake of the oneness in the unity bond of peace.&#8221; Not our opinions, our cultures (this includes worship style and music preferences), or our personal agendas.  In ourselves we are incapable of oneness of thought, word or action with other human beings.  </p>
<p>Only in, through, and by the Spirit&#8217;s little-by-little-day-by-day transformation for a lifetime and the outpouring of the Spirit in power are we capable of achieving oneness locally, let alone globally.  </p>
<p>Look at the disciples.  Before the crucifixion and resurrection, they were arguing over who would have pre-eminence in the Kingdom.  But then they received the Holy Pneuma, became enlightened, enlivened (not to mention regenerated), enjoyed further instruction and comfort from the Lord for forty days, and watched His ascension.  Following THIS, the disciples &#8220;continued steadfastly with one accord in prayer&#8221; with the sisters and Jesus&#8217; relatives.  It was then the Spirit came upon them, and mighty works of God ensued.  Then afterwards they continued in one accord. THAT is what we all want a taste of.  A foretaste of eternity.</p>
<p>Here then, is the illustration of that oneness, that one accord.  It is like combining tea and water.  Once intermingled, they cannot be separated.  The essence of the tea is infused into the water and they are no longer distinct from one another. It is impossible to detect where the tea stops and the water starts or vice versa.  No joints, no stress points.</p>
<p>We have no human construct for the Lord&#8217;s You-in-Me-and-I-in-You-and-they-in-Us.  Without Paul&#8217;s illustration of The Body with Christ as her head, we couldn&#8217;t understand the church.  Without John&#8217;s illustration of the Bride, wouldn&#8217;t &#8220;get&#8221; New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven, adorned as a bride for her husband.  And without the illustration of the &#8220;teaification&#8221; of water, we wouldn&#8217;t understand just how closely the Father, Son and Spirit desire to mingle with us.  One Body, One Spirit, One God and Father who is over all and through all and in all of us.  </p>
<p>If we are &#8220;diligent to keep the oneness of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace,&#8221; who is Christ Himself, realized by us through the Spirit, from the Father, then even when it seems impossible for the church to agree on anything, we still have this promise:</p>
<p>&#8220;[He] is able to do superabundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power which operates in us,.&#8221;  And so on that day, we can say with gladness, &#8220;To Him be the glory _in the church_ and in Christ Jesus unto all the generations forever and ever. Amen.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks, Jeff!  &#8212; Deb</p>
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		<title>Comment on Soundtrack by Joonna Trapp</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-904</link>
		<dc:creator>Joonna Trapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 22:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-904</guid>
		<description>Having grown up in a church that believes all instrumental music in worship to God is sinful, it's not that difficult for me to understand the huge currency that music--one of the truly emotional parts of all Christian worship, world over--has and will continue to have.  Thank God for the gift of music!

This weekend I visited a Church of Christ in Des Moines with my parents who are still faithful members of a very conservative group in Texas.  I almost wept as we sang--nearly 200 of us--the old accapella hymns of my past.  Several of the songs were ones I used to lead at ice cream socials and singings when I was a teenager for my church though they would never say "I led them."  Women didn't "lead" anything.  Still, I led them nonetheless from my tan, worn folding chair in the circle with everyone else.

Oddly, I became very annoyed with the congregation this Sunday morning when they tried ineptly to sing modern praise songs accapella.  Someone, trying to please the younger members of the church had arranged the songs in four part harmony--songs that were meant to be sung with full band as Jeff describes in this chapter.  It hit me then that I was the "goin' out" generation, and much of modern worship was in control of the "comin' in" people.  And that was the way it was supposed to be.

I met a Taiwanese Christian at Calvin a couple of summers ago.  When asked how the church in Taiwan was beginning to leave its anglo missionary roots and become a true church in the culture of the country, he replied that they were in controversy at that present time.  Younger members brought a traditional gong into the service to play at the beginning and closing.  Members trained and converted by the missionaries resisted.  Ah, what creatures we mortals be!

But there's a reason that Martin Luther was highly suspect of music in the church even while he embraced it.  It is so tied to who we are as Christians--it is one of the languages in which we talk to God.  And it matters.  It matters greatly because it resists logic and communicates on a level we rarely reach any other way.

This is a beautiful chapter which raises questions and offers no solutions.  And it is right that it does so.  This chapter has been a blessing to me today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having grown up in a church that believes all instrumental music in worship to God is sinful, it&#8217;s not that difficult for me to understand the huge currency that music&#8211;one of the truly emotional parts of all Christian worship, world over&#8211;has and will continue to have.  Thank God for the gift of music!</p>
<p>This weekend I visited a Church of Christ in Des Moines with my parents who are still faithful members of a very conservative group in Texas.  I almost wept as we sang&#8211;nearly 200 of us&#8211;the old accapella hymns of my past.  Several of the songs were ones I used to lead at ice cream socials and singings when I was a teenager for my church though they would never say &#8220;I led them.&#8221;  Women didn&#8217;t &#8220;lead&#8221; anything.  Still, I led them nonetheless from my tan, worn folding chair in the circle with everyone else.</p>
<p>Oddly, I became very annoyed with the congregation this Sunday morning when they tried ineptly to sing modern praise songs accapella.  Someone, trying to please the younger members of the church had arranged the songs in four part harmony&#8211;songs that were meant to be sung with full band as Jeff describes in this chapter.  It hit me then that I was the &#8220;goin&#8217; out&#8221; generation, and much of modern worship was in control of the &#8220;comin&#8217; in&#8221; people.  And that was the way it was supposed to be.</p>
<p>I met a Taiwanese Christian at Calvin a couple of summers ago.  When asked how the church in Taiwan was beginning to leave its anglo missionary roots and become a true church in the culture of the country, he replied that they were in controversy at that present time.  Younger members brought a traditional gong into the service to play at the beginning and closing.  Members trained and converted by the missionaries resisted.  Ah, what creatures we mortals be!</p>
<p>But there&#8217;s a reason that Martin Luther was highly suspect of music in the church even while he embraced it.  It is so tied to who we are as Christians&#8211;it is one of the languages in which we talk to God.  And it matters.  It matters greatly because it resists logic and communicates on a level we rarely reach any other way.</p>
<p>This is a beautiful chapter which raises questions and offers no solutions.  And it is right that it does so.  This chapter has been a blessing to me today.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Soundtrack by George A. Scranton</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-903</link>
		<dc:creator>George A. Scranton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 18:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-903</guid>
		<description>Amen, Jeff.  
Thoughtful and well done, as usual.
Blessings,
GAS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen, Jeff.<br />
Thoughtful and well done, as usual.<br />
Blessings,<br />
GAS</p>
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		<title>Comment on Soundtrack by Dave Daumer</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-902</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Daumer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/soundtrack/#comment-902</guid>
		<description>Revelations 14:2b-3 says, "The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth."
The transition between one generation and another, and one style of music--or multiple styles of music, must always keep in mind that people are more important than music, and ministry/outreach more imporant than packaging.
No sooner should we think of "replacing"/"removing" a person from the church who reflects a different style of clothing/thinking/worshipping, etc., than an instrument/style of music that may not appeal to all, but to some.
It is sad that we can't all--to quote Rodney King, "just get along", in church of all places--surrendering some of our wishes/preferences to accomodate others, while not being asked to completely give up those things that are meaningful to us, either.
What would a person in the Revelations context in Heaven do if they didn't like "the new song"...? Leave? I am certain that there will not only be new songs sung in Heaven in new styles of expression, but also older classics. 
To offer an "Amen" to the closing paragraph of Jeff's story: may we rest in peace NOW in our churches, enjoying/appreciating all types of music--and people, as a foretaste of the things to come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Revelations 14:2b-3 says, &#8220;The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.&#8221;<br />
The transition between one generation and another, and one style of music&#8211;or multiple styles of music, must always keep in mind that people are more important than music, and ministry/outreach more imporant than packaging.<br />
No sooner should we think of &#8220;replacing&#8221;/&#8221;removing&#8221; a person from the church who reflects a different style of clothing/thinking/worshipping, etc., than an instrument/style of music that may not appeal to all, but to some.<br />
It is sad that we can&#8217;t all&#8211;to quote Rodney King, &#8220;just get along&#8221;, in church of all places&#8211;surrendering some of our wishes/preferences to accomodate others, while not being asked to completely give up those things that are meaningful to us, either.<br />
What would a person in the Revelations context in Heaven do if they didn&#8217;t like &#8220;the new song&#8221;&#8230;? Leave? I am certain that there will not only be new songs sung in Heaven in new styles of expression, but also older classics.<br />
To offer an &#8220;Amen&#8221; to the closing paragraph of Jeff&#8217;s story: may we rest in peace NOW in our churches, enjoying/appreciating all types of music&#8211;and people, as a foretaste of the things to come.</p>
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		<title>Comment on No Water in the Lake by Meggan</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/no-water-in-the-lake/#comment-895</link>
		<dc:creator>Meggan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 20:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/no-water-in-the-lake/#comment-895</guid>
		<description>Yes!  God is calling us to look around and wait.  God reveals beauty and creative thought when I slow down my own mind, doubts, and questions... and simply look around at the wonderful, creative creation of THE Creator!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes!  God is calling us to look around and wait.  God reveals beauty and creative thought when I slow down my own mind, doubts, and questions&#8230; and simply look around at the wonderful, creative creation of THE Creator!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Shoes of a Poet&#8217;s Wife by Meggan</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/09/28/the-shoes-of-a-poets-wife/#comment-894</link>
		<dc:creator>Meggan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/09/28/the-shoes-of-a-poets-wife/#comment-894</guid>
		<description>Indeed, it is all about the smaller stories connecting to larger ones.  The joy of discovering that connection is so great!  I think it is more exciting not to be told explicitly of the connection, but rather let each have their own eyes and ears to see and hear it!  Like recognizing my life story connecting into the story of God's plan to reconcile this world to himself... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, it is all about the smaller stories connecting to larger ones.  The joy of discovering that connection is so great!  I think it is more exciting not to be told explicitly of the connection, but rather let each have their own eyes and ears to see and hear it!  Like recognizing my life story connecting into the story of God&#8217;s plan to reconcile this world to himself&#8230; :)</p>
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		<title>Comment on No Water in the Lake by Sue</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/no-water-in-the-lake/#comment-881</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/no-water-in-the-lake/#comment-881</guid>
		<description>As always, Jeff,  your words draw  beautiful imagines and lead us on but one journey ... closer to God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As always, Jeff,  your words draw  beautiful imagines and lead us on but one journey &#8230; closer to God.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introduction - Dr. Bastian&#8217;s Heaven by Paul Patton</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-459</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Patton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 19:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-459</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

Just finished the introduction.  Strong, very strong.  I was especially drawn in by the beautifully delicate story about Paul Sills--a story that should evolve mythically, a sort-of backdrop to our theatrical/performance fears as thespians, evangelists, immobilized by the impact of "someone else's" glory.  

I'm hoping the chair of our worship arts department can benefit from it.  

A lovely project, dear colleague.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>Just finished the introduction.  Strong, very strong.  I was especially drawn in by the beautifully delicate story about Paul Sills&#8211;a story that should evolve mythically, a sort-of backdrop to our theatrical/performance fears as thespians, evangelists, immobilized by the impact of &#8220;someone else&#8217;s&#8221; glory.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m hoping the chair of our worship arts department can benefit from it.  </p>
<p>A lovely project, dear colleague.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introduction - Dr. Bastian&#8217;s Heaven by Colin Doughan</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-377</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Doughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-377</guid>
		<description>Jeff:

I am coming late to this party so you probably already caught this, but there is a spelling oops in Natalie Goldberg's first quote.  I believe the word should be "Learning" not "Leaning".  Trst mee on ths, I am a good spllr.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff:</p>
<p>I am coming late to this party so you probably already caught this, but there is a spelling oops in Natalie Goldberg&#8217;s first quote.  I believe the word should be &#8220;Learning&#8221; not &#8220;Leaning&#8221;.  Trst mee on ths, I am a good spllr.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introduction - Dr. Bastian&#8217;s Heaven by Colin Doughan</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-376</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Doughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-376</guid>
		<description>Jeff:

I am impatient to read more.  I almost didn't comment so I could move on to your next chapter :)  I am anxious to see how you bring together imagination and creed into corporate worship.  My church loves to sing ancient words - hymns written hundreds of years ago, and songs not yet off the Christian top 40 charts.  However not all of the top 40 christian songs make it onto the overhead projector each Sunday at my church.  Maybe more should...If I chose the songs each Sunday, some of the latest Christian offerings would not make the cut for worship - some authentic Christian music does not urge me to worship.  Perhaps others feel the same.  Why am I talking about song while commenting about story?  If I were picking the music at my local church, I would not feel bad or awkward about leaving some songs off the song list, I do not know these artists, these artists do not all attend my church.  Story is different.  It sounds like your goal is for story to be local, communal, and personal.  I look forward to discussions about the "how."  How do I evaluate the worshipful quality of authentic experience?  Is this even a fair question?  All truth is God's truth.  I look forward to being challenged and humbled at my own arrogance towards worship in chapters to come.  To God be the Glory in everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff:</p>
<p>I am impatient to read more.  I almost didn&#8217;t comment so I could move on to your next chapter :)  I am anxious to see how you bring together imagination and creed into corporate worship.  My church loves to sing ancient words - hymns written hundreds of years ago, and songs not yet off the Christian top 40 charts.  However not all of the top 40 christian songs make it onto the overhead projector each Sunday at my church.  Maybe more should&#8230;If I chose the songs each Sunday, some of the latest Christian offerings would not make the cut for worship - some authentic Christian music does not urge me to worship.  Perhaps others feel the same.  Why am I talking about song while commenting about story?  If I were picking the music at my local church, I would not feel bad or awkward about leaving some songs off the song list, I do not know these artists, these artists do not all attend my church.  Story is different.  It sounds like your goal is for story to be local, communal, and personal.  I look forward to discussions about the &#8220;how.&#8221;  How do I evaluate the worshipful quality of authentic experience?  Is this even a fair question?  All truth is God&#8217;s truth.  I look forward to being challenged and humbled at my own arrogance towards worship in chapters to come.  To God be the Glory in everything.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introduction - Dr. Bastian&#8217;s Heaven by Becky Sheridan</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-319</link>
		<dc:creator>Becky Sheridan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-319</guid>
		<description>Hey Jeff!  I don't have a lot to do in my job as an apartment manager, so I was very happy to see that I can come read your words on story in this blog.  It's been almost 5 years since I graduated from Northwestern, and I still don't know what I want to do with my life (right now I'm just working and doing the occasional theatre production), but I do know I want my life to involve the telling of stories.  You instilled the importance of story in me at NWC, and I can't wait to read what else you have to say about the subject!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jeff!  I don&#8217;t have a lot to do in my job as an apartment manager, so I was very happy to see that I can come read your words on story in this blog.  It&#8217;s been almost 5 years since I graduated from Northwestern, and I still don&#8217;t know what I want to do with my life (right now I&#8217;m just working and doing the occasional theatre production), but I do know I want my life to involve the telling of stories.  You instilled the importance of story in me at NWC, and I can&#8217;t wait to read what else you have to say about the subject!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introduction - Dr. Bastian&#8217;s Heaven by Jeff Barker</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-134</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-134</guid>
		<description>Noel - Yep. I can't imagine my wife Karen saying to me, "Whatever you do, don't get creative with presents. You might just embarass yourself if I don't care for a blouse you buy me." While we need a Biblically guided use of worship gestures, at the same time, "It's the thought that counts." That's what I take Jesus to mean when he says the father seeks those who will worship in spirit and in truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noel - Yep. I can&#8217;t imagine my wife Karen saying to me, &#8220;Whatever you do, don&#8217;t get creative with presents. You might just embarass yourself if I don&#8217;t care for a blouse you buy me.&#8221; While we need a Biblically guided use of worship gestures, at the same time, &#8220;It&#8217;s the thought that counts.&#8221; That&#8217;s what I take Jesus to mean when he says the father seeks those who will worship in spirit and in truth.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introduction - Dr. Bastian&#8217;s Heaven by Jeff Barker</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-133</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Barker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-133</guid>
		<description>Let me try to get back on board with some responses to these responses.
PHIL - worship is indeed spiritual activity, but reading your phrase, "worship is all about the heart" brings to mind the balancing reminder found in the section of C.S. Lewis's "The Screwtape Letters" in which one demon urges another to tempt the Christian into thinking it doesn't really matter if you never kneel when you pray because prayer is just spiritual. Turns out it does matter what we do in these bodies.
EMILY F - your beautiful reverie on the gift of story is a splendid response to Sally's question just above your post. No the Bible cannot be reduced to the story of good vs. evil, but rather the Bible reveals "the uncertain, beautiful, and weird moments of life in dialogue...." Yes!!!! This is the complex structure of the Bible and of God at work in our lives.
REBEKAH - I celebrate with you the Mark and Jody's of the world. It takes people of vision and discipline to craft story into worship. May you follow in their footsteps!
KAILEN - How can we draw others out of the secret places? With your tender heart, this may very well become one of your life callings.
KATIE - "It is a good thing that the Old Testament is full of stories." Whew. Yes. And isn't it curious that the church can forget that basic fact.
EMILY E - You ask how Bible stories can help take worship to an intimate level. This is a wonderful question. I hope that this book and our semester together can begin to answer the question. But it will be a life's journey. May we arrive at the end of our lives knowing that we were people of "The Story" of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me try to get back on board with some responses to these responses.<br />
PHIL - worship is indeed spiritual activity, but reading your phrase, &#8220;worship is all about the heart&#8221; brings to mind the balancing reminder found in the section of C.S. Lewis&#8217;s &#8220;The Screwtape Letters&#8221; in which one demon urges another to tempt the Christian into thinking it doesn&#8217;t really matter if you never kneel when you pray because prayer is just spiritual. Turns out it does matter what we do in these bodies.<br />
EMILY F - your beautiful reverie on the gift of story is a splendid response to Sally&#8217;s question just above your post. No the Bible cannot be reduced to the story of good vs. evil, but rather the Bible reveals &#8220;the uncertain, beautiful, and weird moments of life in dialogue&#8230;.&#8221; Yes!!!! This is the complex structure of the Bible and of God at work in our lives.<br />
REBEKAH - I celebrate with you the Mark and Jody&#8217;s of the world. It takes people of vision and discipline to craft story into worship. May you follow in their footsteps!<br />
KAILEN - How can we draw others out of the secret places? With your tender heart, this may very well become one of your life callings.<br />
KATIE - &#8220;It is a good thing that the Old Testament is full of stories.&#8221; Whew. Yes. And isn&#8217;t it curious that the church can forget that basic fact.<br />
EMILY E - You ask how Bible stories can help take worship to an intimate level. This is a wonderful question. I hope that this book and our semester together can begin to answer the question. But it will be a life&#8217;s journey. May we arrive at the end of our lives knowing that we were people of &#8220;The Story&#8221; of God.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introduction - Dr. Bastian&#8217;s Heaven by Noel Wotherspoon</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-132</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Wotherspoon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 06:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-132</guid>
		<description>So you are saying that we should let everything hang out?  Something like that?  I like the idea.  I liked how you described that there shouldn't be limitations on worship.  Well, with the exception of human sacrifice and such.  I think people do put certain labels on worship.  Things get left out that shouldn't be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you are saying that we should let everything hang out?  Something like that?  I like the idea.  I liked how you described that there shouldn&#8217;t be limitations on worship.  Well, with the exception of human sacrifice and such.  I think people do put certain labels on worship.  Things get left out that shouldn&#8217;t be.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introduction - Dr. Bastian&#8217;s Heaven by Phil Kosakowski</title>
		<link>http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Kosakowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 01:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://storyandworship.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/introduction-dr-bastians-heaven/#comment-131</guid>
		<description>Great stuff Jeff!!  I really liked all the things that you said about worship.  I've heard over and over again, and i do believe, that worship is an all day, every day kind of thing, if you will.  Reading this really helped me put it all in perspective.  The fact that worship isn't soley based on the music, or other aspects of the "worship service".  But rather, our whole lives and everything we do in them can be viewed as worship.  Now like you said, that doesn't mean that much or such other things can be used in our worship to God.  But i just appreciated how you put into perspective that worship is all about the heart.  Thanks!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff Jeff!!  I really liked all the things that you said about worship.  I&#8217;ve heard over and over again, and i do believe, that worship is an all day, every day kind of thing, if you will.  Reading this really helped me put it all in perspective.  The fact that worship isn&#8217;t soley based on the music, or other aspects of the &#8220;worship service&#8221;.  But rather, our whole lives and everything we do in them can be viewed as worship.  Now like you said, that doesn&#8217;t mean that much or such other things can be used in our worship to God.  But i just appreciated how you put into perspective that worship is all about the heart.  Thanks!!</p>
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